If we’ve been social dancing for any length of time, we know that one of the golden rules is to ‘never teach on the dancefloor’. It’s irritating, it’s rude, and it makes your partner feel really crappy.
I’m not talking about the follow who requests that their hands not be squeezed, or the lead who requests a follow not to self-dip. I’m talking about those <s> lovely </s> individuals who stop a dance to explain to you what you’re doing ‘wrong’ and how to fix it.
I’m talking about things like this personal anecdote:
I once had a guy ‘correct’ me on a tango step I had never heard of. With any intermediate+ lead, I was able to execute it because of the lead’s skill. Yes, I wasn’t doing it perfectly – but it worked because the leads were compensating for my non-knowledge.
With this newer lead, I was having a hard time following the step. This was because he had not yet mastered his own ability to lead the step to a point where he could compensate for me. No biggie… until he stopped the dance to glower at me and inform me that I should be doing (insert name of step I didn’t know), followed by a mid-song lesson on the step.
It was neither nice nor effective, and just made me irritated. Really irritated. So irritated I have yet to dance with him again.
***
But… why? Why was I so very irritated by this encounter? Why do we feel that one of the greatest faux-pas is people seeking to share their knowledge? And, is it ever OK?
When you teach on the floor, you’re likely irritating your partner for one of two reasons:
- They know you have no clue what you’re doing, and are pissed you’re giving them a lecture on something you shouldn’t be; or,
- They know they have no clue what they are doing, and are now upset because you have taken time out of the dance to point out how much they suck (or at least, that’s what it feels like).
Both of these are saying ‘I know more than you’, even if one is simply horribly misguided. So basically, you have the people who are irritating because:
- They’re throwing their superiority in the face of someone who already knows they’re not as strong; or,
- They *think* they know more (but really don’t)… thus irritating their partner by virtue of possessing an ego much larger than their actual skill set.
No one likes someone telling them ‘I know more than you’, even if it’s true.
It’s even more irritating if it’s NOT true. If you really ARE a stronger dancer than your partner, they probably already know that. They don’t need it thrown in their face during a fun dance.
But, the majority of offenders in the ‘teaching on the floor’ category are people who do not have the expertise to actually help their partner understand.
Superiority: the reason dancefloor lessons are SO irritating
No one likes being treated like an inferior on their night out. When we correct a partner during a social dance, it immediately puts us on a pedestal of superiority.
Justify it as we like, teaching on the social floor is almost always rooted in ego and superiority. It does not matter how well-intentioned, how brief, or whether 1 out of every 20 partners actually enjoys the advice; the reason we are giving advice stems from us.
It stems from our need to be looked up to as a dancer.
It stems from our desire to ‘help,’ which is a way to make ourselves feel good.
It stems from frustration that our partner isn’t getting something that we think they should.
The other problem with advice-giving is that it establishes a teacher-student power dynamic in what is supposed to be a social atmosphere. While teacher-student dynamics are great in the classroom between an actual teacher and student, it’s not appropriate for the social floor. Even when actual teachers are social dancing, they’re not trying to create a teacher-student dynamic.
On the social floor, the best dances happen between two equals.
Why are people who don’t know what they’re doing usually the ones ‘teaching’ on the floor?
The people who are teaching on the floor are usually ‘teaching’ because they’re not able to effectively compensate for their partner.
In dance, we’re constantly compensating for each other’s mistakes. However, many ‘floor teachers’ believe that the issues that are present in the dance are squarely the result of the partner’s incompetence. Thus, they decide to ‘help’ and ‘correct’ their partner to bring them up to speed.
What they don’t realize is that the mistakes are partially because they’re not leading or following properly.
I have no need to correct beginners on the dance floor. Why? I can work with their mistakes. Their basic went wonky? No big deal. Frame is not present? Whatever. I can provide frame for the both of us, if necessary.
But, what if you put two newer dancers together? A lot more things suddenly go wrong, simply because neither can effectively take care of the other, yet.
All you need is an over-inflated ego on one of the newer dancers to begin ‘blaming’ their partner and ‘helping’ them get better. Very often, they’ll defend themselves by thinking that since the move worked on an advanced dancer, it’s their partner’s fault.
The other group of people who frequently teach on the dance floor are the ones who are looking to bump up their own ego.
This is the dynamic you see when a so-experienced man takes a very new woman, and spends time ‘getting to know her’ by ‘teaching’ her how to dance. Of course, it doesn’t have to be experienced man to new girl, but it is the most common dynamic I’ve seen.
The ‘teacher’ gets to feel important, attractive and special because they have the attention of a person they’re likely attracted to. Thus, they get an ego boost.
Very often, the ‘student’ may:
- Not realize the ‘teacher’ actually has no idea what they’re talking about
- Feel like they should be ‘grateful’, even if the advice makes them feel bad
- Get confused or overwhelmed by badly-presented information
- Develop bad habits from bad advice
- Injure their bodies because they tried to follow the ‘instructions’
Basically, it’s almost always a bad idea. There may be some people who ‘appreciate’ advice or on-floor teaching, but they are in the minority and can still be negatively impacted by floor teaching.
“But what about the well-intentioned ones?”
I’ve yet to meet a dancer in the scene who had bad intentions as the motivation for teaching. Most of the people who teach on the dance floor legitimately believe they’re doing a service.
Some believe they’re improving their inexperienced partner, or that they’re contributing to a better dance by correcting mistakes. Some do it to make themselves feel important and valued. Some feel that others should be grateful for their opinion and help. Most think they’re legitimately doing a wanted thing.
What they fail to realize is that the way they are trying to help is rude. It’s like interrupting a golf game to tell a friend how to properly align their swing. Are the intentions to help? Almost certainly. Is the intention to make the person giving advice look smart, benevolent, and helpful? Of course.
What does it actually look like? A person interrupting a perfectly fun game to nitpick.
“But they asked for feedback!”
Practice and feedback between two consenting dancers is great – away from the social dance floor!
Even if a partner asks for feedback, I’d suggest smiling and just saying that you’re there to dance. Generally speaking, feedback should be saved for practices and off-floor time. If someone requests feedback and you want to practice with that person, suggest moving away from the dance floor.
In addition to not making you look like a floor teacher, it also removes the hazard that stationary couples pose for the floorcraft and safety of dancing couples.
What if the person is brand new?
This is probably the only good exception to teaching on the floor. Brand-new dancers need somewhere to start. Even so, there’s a specific order of operations that should be followed regarding how much to teach them.
First, if the new person came with a friend, let that friend direct the teaching. If they ask you to help, feel free. If they are spending time with the person, let them be.
If the person asks for your help, then feel free to help them – within limits. The limits can look something like this:
DO:
- Help them understand the basic step
- Do the basic step to their speed (NOT the music)
- Help them understand the timing, if they’ve got the step
- Give simple cues that don’t confuse them. (Ex: Follow your elbows; don’t use your thumbs, change weight every step.)
- If they screw up, give them a chance to breathe and re-start.
DON’T:
- Correct them every time they get a step wrong
- Force them on timing
- Start teaching dips, non-basic patterns, and styling
- Get technical
- Re-teach the basic every time they screw up (just start again!)
Don’t be a dancefloor teacher, unless you’re bringing a brand-new person into the scene. Once that person has taken a few lessons, it’s time to stop ‘coaching’ them on the floor.
Unless you are a teacher in a classroom, you should not be teaching dance. Even if you are usually a teacher, the social floor is not the place to give unsolicited advice!
Have thoughts on dancefloor teaching? Leave them in the comments below!
A familiar topic. And I know that we (the article author and I) disagree on some parts. Perhaps that stems from our different backgrounds, prior experiences and the respective social arenas where we dance.
First of all, I want to say that I DO agree on most of these points, but not all, and I certainly do not think that this is as a black and white issue as I perceive this post presents it.
Often when I go out to dance, it is at one of the local dance schools. Three times a week (at least) they have socials. The social is preceded by optional drop-in classes. They serve no alcohol and the people coming there are there to dance AND, in most cases, to learn to dance or dance better.
So when I dance on the social after the drop-ins, there are occasions when I try out new things with the follow, that is new things for us as a couple, trying to find the limits where it is a fun dance and where I shouldn’t try to push the level.
Sometimes, a follow will ask me what that step was. Sometimes I just smooth it over and continue the dance. If I know that I am not 100% sure about that step myself and just wanted to try it out with a new follow to see how well I could lead it, I say: “Sorry, it is new to me and obviously I need to practice more”. But if I know that step and know that I can both lead AND instruct on what we do AND the follow insists that they want to learn, showing genuine interest in improving themselves, I might… I repeat MIGHT, consider doing it. That is the point “But they asked for feedback!” in this article.
(Intermission: If I follow, I would be the one asking, but that is because I am a way worse follow than I am as a lead and have much to learn and am interested in learning. And yes, i can follow as a male, even if the lead is male. This has nothing to do with my sexuality and all to do with my desire to be a better lead. I have improved my leading immensely by taking the other seat and starting learning how to follow. Back to the main subject.)
Most often this has happened, I go to the side of the floor (it is not always I am standing in the middle of the floor anyway), I never have to stop dancing, perhaps showing at half speed to I can quietly talk though the movement. It is partly for not disturbing others, but mostly for our own sake, it is more quiet away from the middle.
Most often people don’t want to find another time in the week to go somewhere to practice that one step, they are at these socials to learn how to apply the things they have tried in the drop-in or regular classes. If you go out to a bar/party to dance, that is another thing. In that social arena you don’t primarily dance to improve your dance. Trying to teach there would most likely be futile.
As for being a stationary hazard” to other couples. It doesn’t matter what you do on the dance floor, dancing, talking, watching, hitting on someone, etc: You MUST observe regular dance floor etiquette. PERIOD! And being stationary isn’t the worst thing on the dance floor. You can be completely stationary, spatially speaking, but still dance. Unless you dance a dance where you are *supposed* to move around the dance floor as a group, you are free to occupy your space as long as you respect others and give room to them. It is a give and take. I think that a much greater hazard are those taking too much space or moving wildly around, not observing proper etiquette, than “stationary” couples. If I run into a stationary couple, it is most likely my fault. Should someone just be standing still in the middle of the dance floor? Probably not a great idea but it doesn’t take away my blame if I crash into them. I should still be aware of the other dancers, no matter how much they move around.
Having said this, if I believe that this is not the right place or time to meet such a request, I will say: “I can show you some other time”. There can be a number of reasons for this. Sometimes I point to a teacher and say that they should attend that teachers class or take a private lesson rather than listen to me, especially if I see that there is a too big gap in knowledge. But usually this shouldn’t be the case. I should not try something that much above my follows level, then I have skipped and jumped too many levels instead of feeling what is appropriate.
Note that I am not talking about having lessons that take multiple songs or even a whole song. Most of the time it is just a single step that is new to my partner and they got stumped by.
If someone sincerely ask me, and insists that they want to learn, telling them no outright is for me very rude and I see that it could be perceived as them not being “good enough” or “worthy” to get this right. That is NOT being a generous dancer in my world. YMMV.
I understand that someone making a living out of teaching wants to ban the practice of teaching outside scheduled sessions. As for a dancer in a quite small community based on generosity and sharing, I see this question in a different light where there is no black and white but many shades of gray.
Is this a method for everyone? No, definitely no. I have worked as a teacher, albeit not a dance teacher, in multiple fields during the course of my life. I know that teaching is not a simple one-way process, and I am humble enough to admit when I am out of my league. I don’t do this to brag, show off or feel better about myself. I do it because I want to give back to the community what I have been given myself. Not all are interested in it, but they won’t ask me in the first place so there is no problem there.
My approach to dance and helping others when they ask have earned me a reputation for being a generous and caring dancer. I am far from great, I know that I will always be in learning, no matter how advanced I get or if I even would start teaching dance on a professional level one day. When I go to these socials, I never get to stand still, even if I never ask for a dance, the follows will come and ask me since many know me at these socials. And I appreciate that. I am far from the most popular lead, the younger more handsome guys and those more advanced are way more popular, but I do not complain (and there is not a shortage of leads, some nights the follows are in extremely short supply).
But you should always ask yourself why would you do such a thing. If the motivation is for selfish reasons, stay away and try to just dance. If you are not a person that can teach/instruct well, the dance floor is NOT the place to learn how to teach. A more controlled environment is better suited for that.
So I don’t agree that only brand new dancers should be helped if asked. Anyone asking is a possible candidate… IF AND ONLY IF the correct requirements are met. Enumerating them is not clear cut, it is always a decision you must make based on the circumstances. It is often easier to say when it is NOT the time to try to teach.
Unsolicited advice is only good when you need to curb bad or dangerous behavior. If someone is potentially hurting/harming/disturbing me or another dancer I might give unsolicited advice or even tell them sharply to stop what they are doing. Luckily these occasions are few and far apart. Again a gray area.
I know that when I have reacted in the past to the anti-“giving advice” message it has been that we put different meaning to the words advice and teaching. The word unsolicited changes the meaning of advice and teaching quite a lot. Some of the confusion might stem from english not being my first language and some nuances are lost to me. Still I feel that, sometimes, in extreme cases, unsolicited advice is warranted.
The limits or rather do’s (and don’ts with some modification) given at the end of the article are really good and should be applied to any lesson/teaching session. They are actually fundamentals of good teaching methodology.
I fear less teaching on the dance floor than the bad teachers out there. There are many exceptional dancers that MUST teach in order to be able (financially) to dance professionally, but some of these these dancers have extremely poor teaching methodology. They have not studied teaching professionally, nor have they the aptitude for it. They have not teaching in their heart, but do it out of necessity. They have not the experience since they do it only half-heartedly and do not learn from what they are doing. Yet, they are considered “great” teachers purely based on their ability to dance or perform and invited to teach because of this. Ask yourself, are the coaches for the sports teams the best players out there? Are the best composers the best artists? Are the best choreographers the best dancers? So ask yourself, why should the best dancers the best teachers?
Performing on stage, making choreographies, dancing socially, teaching are totally different facets of the same jewel. You can shine in one area, and be piss poor (excuse my harsh words) in others. Even teaching a group or having private lessons are two entirely different things. The size of the group also influences teaching. Some might be great with a small, even group, others have no trouble with large groups, unevenly paired and with uneven levels.
There are a few unique individuals that possesses exceptional skill in multiple or even all of these facets. Those I admire and they are my big idols. The rest I respect and appreciate for the skills they have, but do not blindly apply admiration on other facets based on those skills alone.
Sorry for digressing, but for me teaching is a big part of who I am. I have opted to not teach dance formally, yet. Mostly because it is a hobby of mine and I have made too many of my old hobbies work when I got into them more professionally. Still, if a dance partner that I care about asks for my help and it is not a bad time or place (not claiming it has to be ideal, just not bad) to help out and in turn improve the dance experience for both of us, I will consider doing so. I call this giving back and being generous.
I know that there are some others, where I dance, that have a similar attitude to this as I. But we are not many. There are more that would never try to teach, and that is ok and I respect their decision whatever it might be based on. They all give in their way.
These are my personal opinions. The might not be diametrically opposed to this post, but they do not align fully either. I do not claim to be right and someone else to be wrong. I just have a slightly different view and, while most of the time I don’t care enough to raise my voice, in this case I like present it to show the differing view. Especially since I care and appreciate the good work and all the great advice Ms. Riva gives on this blog.
Hey DIL,
Yes, there are certainly many shades of grey within this same topic – but those exceptions are very rare. In most scenes I have seen, the majority of ‘teaching’ on the floor is not the situation that you describe.
When two people are working together post-lesson, it does function much like a practice. It’s two people giving and taking equally. Same with a person who is not ‘telling’ how to do something, but rather working with a partner to both figure it out. Basically, there’s a give-and-take element not present in the ‘teaching on the floor’ mentality that I describe.
I know one great lead in Tango where I learn something new each time, because he gives a general idea of what he’s looking for without teaching. For example, saying “I’m trying to figure out how to lead your leg here”. It works perfectly to help me understand where he wants me, but without feeling ‘preachy’. So, there are certainly some exceptions.
Especially in smaller school socials, there’s more room for movement on the issue. But, for example, at a congress or major party, it’s far less appropriate. 🙂
This has got to be the worst of my negative experiences with the dance scene; a normally super positive space for me. I’m a beginner, am not able to attend classes though I’d like to, but I can follow and enjoy the basic steps with a few alterations. To a more advanced dancer, I get that this might get dull but this is a pleasant experience for me. I’m quite open about my inexperience, so if you want to say no to a dance from me, that’s cool. I’m even pretty receptive to a little encouragement to try a new step again when it didn’t work the first time with some gentle suggestions for how to make it work.
But I had someone try to teach me basically every move in the beginner’s class repertoire because he thought I was capable of learning and I politely took his lesson right there on the SOCIAL dancefloor, repeating incorrect movements until I got them right, and then moving onto new stuff to learn. Needless to say this dance (lasting multiple songs) had none of the flow that I want when I come to dance. It had no feeling of equality. I was just reminded of what I don’t know and how badly I should feel for not being able to take classes (something that is completely out of my control). His repeated “compliments” of how good a follow I could be if I took some lessons get less and less complimentary after I have to repeat that I am not able to attend. Ugh! Thank you for your article that digs into this issue that still leaves me mentally bent out of shape!
Unsolicited teaching is very rarely good. A student is only really receptive to knowledge if they want to learn. Unsolicited advice (where advice a small bit of knowledge, not a lesson or lecture) on the other hand might, in my point of view, be warranted. Advice might be more or less verbal, such as moving a hand. The person in question might not have solicited advice since they did not know they needed it. Still, any advice should not make the recipient feel bad, because if it does it will be received in a bad way and could even have opposite effect.
Generally speaking, if a teacher makes a student feel inferior or bad, the teacher has failed, no matter where the lesson is being held. A good teaching experience should be a feeling of moving forward, even though there might be a realization of how long the road ahead might be. A feeling of hopelessness or worthlessness is a big failure from the teachers side. Everyone should feel good, at their level. You might feel frustrated that you don’t progress quickly enough, and that is ok, but you should still feel good in the place you are right now.
Giving “compliments” on how good you could be is not a compliment at all. I would say that it is an insult, and a poorly disguised one. What he essentially said is that you *weren’t* good and you really need to take lessions. You don’t say that to someone you meet on the dance floor. That is outright rude.
If you do not have time to attend classes right at this time in your life, dancing whenever you can is the next best thing you can do. Keep doing it.
If you want to use social dances to learn, you should only ask for help when you find a dance partner that you feel can help you out and when you feel comfortable with that person. In my opinion, such help should be limited, both in scope and time. Unless you have a space set of to focus on learning, too much is not good. That is why a good lecture focus on one topic or even a limited part of one topic. So a good idea might be to ask that partner you feel safe with something like this: “I often get stuck on this on thing. Could you try it out with me during the next dance and see if I get it? If you have any pointers I would be grateful.”
Anyone forcing their “help” on you isn’t helping you at all. In such a case, tell them “I am very grateful that you want to teach me but I don’t think this is the time or the place. Is it ok that we just dance? I know I am a beginner and do want to learn, but I am taking classes as soon as I can. Tonight I am just here to try to uphold the level I am currently at. New things would be too much at the moment.” Anyone not being ok with this is not worthy of a second dance.
Great essay on this annoying habit some people have. I have to say, though, that one of the big issues I have as a leader is when a beginner targets me and asks to teach her something while social dancing. I will do some basic things with her and then suggest she take some lessons after the song has finished. But there’s always someone else there willing to spend time teaching her. These are the same women who months or years later will proudly tell you they have never took a lesson in their life, just “learned by dancing”. Riiiiight.
In a way, I want you to be proud that this person singled you out to help them. Obviously they saw something in you or the way you dance that gave them the impression that you are talented and knowledgeable. BUT… if you are not intererested in helping them out, that is your prerogative. Anyone not respecting your wish does not deserve your respect. And I think you are doing exactly correct in your situation where you do not wish to teach them, that is, tell them to attend classes. Teaching on the dance floor is no substitute for real classes. It can be a supplement to learn small tidbits here and there, but if it expands to anything else it is just teaching in a noisy environment.
As you say, they might find someone willing to teach them. Still, these follows wants to find someone to teach them. If they say that they never took a lesson in their life, they are lying through their teeth. Obviously they have, perhaps not just formal classes (which would probably helped them more than an occasional helpful dancer on the dance floor every now and then). It is sad that they do not realize this.
I am more annoyed by the (bad) follows that claim that you cannot learn to dance/follow in classes and only go to socials but do not have the mindset to try to learn from their leads. The common denominator here is often that they are young(ish) and quite attractive, and thus always gets to dance with leads that (most likely) are hitting on them and seem to equate this with being good since they get to dance all the time. They are not abysmal followers but seldom good and I find very little enjoyment to dance with them, both because of their level, but perhaps more about their attitude.
For me, a healthy mixture of classes, socials and workshops is what improves my dance. And as a teacher (in other disciplines) I can tell you that when you need to teach someone, you usually elevate your own level. You need to if you want to be a good teacher and be able to consciously convey knowledge to someone else.
But not everyone wants to or even enjoys teaching, even if it could be beneficial for themselves, and that is why I fully support you, or anyone else, that just want to dance and not help improve someone elses dance.
I totally agree with this, especially that many people trying to teach don’t have the skills to lead well or compensate for their partner. It really winds me up – generally I can follow most things if led well enough, but if it fails once (or I’ve chosen not to complete the -usually dangerous- move) I don’t want to have them dwell on it. Realise there’s an issue and move on.
On the one hand, I hate being told I’m doing something wrong when dancing with somebody. One time a follow told me I should keep my arm more bent. I think back and I understand that now, she was probably losing connection, but at the time I had no conception of what the necessity of that might be, so I just didn’t do it. I didn’t get it, and I just felt resentful toward that person. And further, it’s a dance. “Wrong” isn’t really a valid opinion to have unless you’re in discomfort. I didn’t say “hello, would you like to dance in a strictly lindy-style with an average of 5N* connecting tension? Here’s an ordered list of planned moves.” I just said “hi, would you like to dance?” So who is she to say I’m doing something wrong? Maybe I like having no connection there, she doesn’t know.
On the other hand, I also had someone tell me that my hand was in an uncomfortable position, and I was mortified that I had been doing it that way and it was probably uncomfortable for a lot of follows, but no one ever said anything. It was told to me in a completely appropriate setting, though: in a class, where the teacher mentioned that exact thing. But for something like that, I wish people would just say something immediately. Yeah, I’ll be embarrassed, but I’ll do my best to correct it.
I think that embarrassment of finding you’re doing something miserable is probably something that’s unavoidable, though. As much as it sucks to learn that you’ve been doing something super wrong, you may just have to stumble upon the correct situation to learn to do it right. I have so many examples of this. When I very first started, no one told me about floorcraft. I thought running into people was just kind of a thing that was going to happen, and yeah try to avoid it, but not as much as you really should. Certainly not as much as I try to avoid it today.
But I think we all kind of understand the whole progression that people go through. I had a super new follow tell me I should give some kind of hand signal like a tap on the shoulder when leading a particular move and I just thought “aww, I remember thinking that’s how leads communicated too.” To this day I don’t understand how follows react so quickly, it seems like wizardry, but they do it, and I don’t question wizards. I didn’t actually do what she was asking or let her know that that’s typically not how it’s done, I just didn’t lead that again. For context, it was basically just walking, I wasn’t leading some kind of crazy thing. I’ve danced with her a lot since then but I haven’t led that same thing. Point is, I think there are common phases that people fight through when learning, and I think floor-teaching is one of them, so I don’t begrudge anybody newer than me for trying to teach things. I didn’t go through that phase personally, but I did go through the “what’s floorcraft?” phase, which I think is much more egregious now.
*I have no idea if 5N would be way too much or way too little tension
My $.02USD – “you’re doing something that’s hurting me” doesn’t qualify “teaching”. It still needs to be done gently so as not to make the person feel badly, especially if they’re new, but no-one deserves to be injured.
I have the opposite expericence, the majority of “teaching” on the floor is exactly as I describe, but then I think our different views stem from our different backgrounds, prior experiences and the respective social arenas where we dance.
Which is why I object when I see something stated as “Why is teaching on the dancefloor so irritating” as if it was an absolute rule. But I understand you speak from your experience, just as I do from mine.
Note that I am not talking about post-lesson practice. I cannot recall an instance where I have danced with this dancer during the class prior to the social, nor that I did something from that class. I am talking about me doing my “normal” dancing and surprising my partner with something new for them that they wanted to learn. Why I mentioned the school/class was the setting itself: a dance school, holding socials, not serving alcohol, attracting people that wants to *learn* is perhaps the key to why it is accepted in this social dance arena.
If you go to a bar, club, big congress, the setting it is another thing. So this is not black and white, but a judgement call from time to time.
If someone wants me to do a post-lession practice I would be very happy, but definitely stay off the social dance floor and try to find a place where we control the setting/music and not a DJ.
I think we may have different definitions on what things are…
I’m posting something today I think you may agree a little more with! To me, teaching on the floor is a very specific type of behavior.
🙂 Ok, defining terms are good so that we speak the same language. But what you would call “floor teaching” I would like to call “unsolicited and unwanted floor teaching that disrupts a social dance”.
Anyway, in the second last sentence of your new post I think you missed a word and you should have written “Think about whether you’re _floor_ teaching, tipping,…” I too oppose floor teaching (under your definition) not teaching in the more traditional sense when a “student” want to learn and a “teacher” wants to teach * 😉
None of the five categories in your new piece really matches what I have experienced, and the one that “K Butterman” seems to mention if I understand him correctly: One party asks another to teach them something during what is a social dance. The one asking is not really contributing (ie not two equals learning from each other, one is clearly giving information to the other, not reprociated), but really interested in learning, so it is not co-operative practice and it is more than asks, tips or helps. The one asking is for example learning to do a step that they couldn’t do before.
I think the nomenclature is a bit unfortunate and can give wrong associations, but I yield.
If “floor teaching” is what it is called or you want it to be called, I understand what you mean. And yes, I very much see how it can be irritating and potentially harmful to the dance community as it can drive people away and make egos grow.
One thing I didn’t mention before and that also could influence this, is that I think the kind of “teaching” I am talking about is less practical or perhaps even impractical in some dances (eg salsa or quick energetic dances) and more suited in other (eg kizomba or bachata sensual/modern/fusion) since you can quietly talk to your partner in a close position and can even have a quiet conversation. So if you want to ask something, reply to a question or even explain how to lead or follow a certain part, you can do so even without disrupting the dance you are currently dancing. Also, a dance that do not require you to dance to the full beat all the time but is rather flexible and allows you to dance at half or even quarter speed (like you could do in for example kizomba) allows you to slowly go through a step and then slowly try it out at the tempo of the music next. It would disrupt the dance in the sense that from a musicality perspective you are probably losing out, since you are focusing on the steps and not dancing *to* the music, using the music fully. Still, you are not disrupting the dance by stopping, talking, and doing steps out of rythm. But if you want the former, you should not ask how to learn but instead have a social dance and ignore any shortcomings of either party.
* ok, simplified, other factors (time, place, surroundings, etc) should be weighed in but that I think we have covered them ad-nauseam by now.
I personally still put newbie-asking-experienced-dancer-on-floor as a type of ‘floor teaching’, if it’s beyond basics. It’s disruptive, and can put the experienced dancer in a position of feeling ‘obligated’ to help – but the psychology and nuances there are a totally different thing. This article more addresses the ‘advice giver’, not the ‘advice receiver’.
Obviously, there is a huge range of behaviors that cannot be captured by this type of article. I could probably write a 50-page book on just this type of behavior and all the nuances I see associated with it… but I don’t think anyone would want to read that 😛
I agree that ‘floor teaching’ can be substituted with another term that would be perhaps more accurate… however, I think floor teaching captures the essence of what I’m trying to say closely enough without a huge long name for it.
Each dance definitely has its own etiquette when it comes to to how to give advice or tips on the floor. I still think that if it involves stopping and actively working on something, it’s best saved for the non-social floor in 90% of cases.
I think also (having a pretty good guess of who you are in ‘real life’) that you are perhaps slanted a bit in your perspective.
You’re exceptionally good at not coming across as a negative or egoist dancer, and are also exceptionally eager to help AND learn. I have no doubt that when you engage in any sort of on-floor learning that you’re not offending people with how you are doing it. There’s a tango dancer I know who is similar to you as well, and he’s an absolute joy – even when ‘teaching’ a step.
But… I’d say you are largely an exception and not the norm when it comes to how you interact with learning on the dancefloor!
Awesome!!!! It’s like you put in text everything I think about that situation! I’m gonna share this article to infinity! Thank you!
THANK you! Nice article and I’ve often seen those situations on the floor myself. The worst dancers, leader or follower, try to teach their dance partners. I dance salsa for 18 years now and teaching almost 15 years and I made this experience myself in the dance floor with a guy who was leading beside timing… I excused myself and told him (lying) I was just a beginner. Didn’t dance with him a second song because I was tired of correct his mistakes while dancing.
But there is another disturbing thing going on, when you are on a party and people know you as a dance teacher… They ask for feedback, or ask for a schoolmark after dancing. “How was I?” That’s so rude and awkward, because I am on the dance floor to have fun, to enjoy music with the partner I am just dancing with. It’s not nice if people don’t see you as person anymore and just want to have a benefit out of our dance in asking:” what can I do better? Can you show me a new figure?” I stay polite, tell them that now is party time no teaching, that I am here as a private person.
Some other night a guy came to means ask me to teach his (new?) girlfriend a step she didn’t get and when I refused he went mad at me and said I’m arrogant. Thank … Some people make you wonder what their parents taught them.
Being a lead that intentionally avoids teaching on the dance floor as much as possible, I wholly disagree with almost all of your reasoning. It’s quite ironic that in the same article, you criticize people for doing what they think is best by listing out do’s and don’ts to tell them what you think is best. I find it very egocentric and judgmental to say the least.
I can assure you that anyone that falls into any of the categories you lumped the floor teachers into won’t read this and say “Thanks for the great advice!” They’ll feel the exact same way about you that you feel about them. Which is “Who are you to tell me what to do?” That being said, what then is the purpose of this blog other than to satisfy your own ego?
Of course, there are plenty of people that teach in a social setting that shouldn’t. I’m sure plenty of them do it for the reasons you listed and have the same lack of knowledge you describe. However, making the assumption that they’re doing it to bloat their ego or because they think you’re bad sounds more like a projection to me. That’s what you think of them because you don’t understand what they’re doing or why they’re doing it. It’s entirely possible that they are just socially awkward or that dancing is one of the few outlets they have. It’s possible that while you’re busy being annoyed, they’re unsuccessfully trying to figure out how to explain themselves without being rude. It could be because the person they already have a relationship with the person they’re talking with and the person is asking for advice. It could be because they’re an asshole.
While I agree that teaching on the social dance floor should be kept to a minimum, setting rules based on how you think people should interact is even worse than the interactions you’re criticizing. The whole idea of *social* dancing is to socialize. If that involves discussing dance, be it moves, technique or whatever, who is anyone to judge? As long as nobody is getting hurt, what’s the big deal? I’ve been travelling, teaching and competing for over 15 years and if there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s to let people enjoy the dance the way they want to enjoy it. If something annoys me, that’s my problem.
Hi Jesse,
Thank you for your thoughts.
From the tone of your comment, I think perhaps you have misconstrued the idea of the article. For example, I am not telling people that they *should never* teach on the floor. Rather, I say that generally it is a thing to be avoided. I also say that *most* (not all) floor teachers fall into those two categories. The Do and Don’t list are an example of guidelines that can help successfully navigate what is/is not generally welcomed in terms of teaching on the floor.
I understand that some people who dance use it because they are socially awkward and struggle with conversation. It is entirely possible that their attempt to teach is a misdirected social guideline. However, it still often (not always) comes down to trying to ‘pump’ oneself up through showing superior knowledge, OR an attempt to ‘fix’ something that their partner is perceived to be doing wrong. Whether or not this is the immediate reasoning, it is generally still a component psychologically in many cases. Note that I have never once said ‘all’ cases. Is it a nuanced discussion of every possible facet? No, because that would take several thousand words.
I’m certainly not ‘so busy being annoyed’ that I don’t understand that most floor teachers don’t mean harm. In fact, I specifically state that I have almost never come across a floor teacher that is intentionally out to ‘get’ the partner.
In the follow up piece to this article, I go through what I feel is a key distinction between floor teaching, asking, and co-operative learning – which would be your pre-existing relationship example.
While not dangerous, floor teaching is something that can (and often does) create negative memories on the dance floor. While ‘getting hurt’ is the worst thing, that does not mean that (in my opinion) we should ignore the things that create an unpleasant social dance floor. I personally think that the soft skills of social dancing is something that deserves more attention. Specifically, understanding that your intention is sometimes far less important than the effect that your action has on your partner.
It feels as though you took offense to my article. I write this blog because I enjoy writing, and I enjoy sharing my perspective of many things in dance. If the article is shared, it is generally because other people have found it useful in some way – or because it resonated with them. For this, I am grateful. Does it make me feel good when my articles help someone, or when it makes people aware of their behavior? Yes. Is my word the ultimate truth? No. There’s bound to be people who disagree with virtually every thing that I’ve ever written.
So, in some ways: yes, this blog does bump up my ego. It makes me feel good when it helps people, and it makes me happy when it is shared and enjoyed. It forces me to swallow my ego when someone retorts the blog, and to attempt to deal civilly, rationally, and without anger to both well-thought out discourse, as well as personal attacks.
Unlike teaching on the floor, no one has to read this article. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. It is my perspective, and it is up to people to do with it as they please. If it annoys people, it’s easy to close the window – or to leave feedback, as you have done. Partners on the dancefloor rarely have this luxury.
Rather, they can leave, and look rude. They can stay, and get frustrated. They can say something, and risk pissing off their partner. There is no easy out. There are no good options. This is what makes things like partner relationships so important in dancing.
I prefer to think most people would prefer not to annoy their partners. Floor teaching often is irritating. There is no floor-teaching police, but why would a person want to engage in a behavior that could very likely be irritating to the partner?
Hi Laura,
I love your articles. They’re very helpful, and I’m currently reading through the archives. Although I danced country/western by learning on the dance floor over a decade ago, I am new to the Latin dance scene for the last three months. I’m taking classes for salsa.
Last Wednesday, while at a weekly social, I was teaching a beginner the basic steps and how to do a left turn on the dance floor during one of the socials. She said she didn’t know how to dance, so I offered to teach her. Being a beginner myself, I stuck to just the basic and the left turn, enough to get her out on the floor and smiling and doing at least one move other than the basic. Since she was struggling with the left turn, we did stop and get next to each other side by side so she could watch me perform the move at a slow count pace.
What do you call this? After reading your article, I don’t think this fits the “irritating floor teaching” you’re referring to.
The woman I was teaching was happy and giggly, and we continued dancing together into the next salsa song, where she could keep a basic step with the music and do an occasional left turn or two. She then went on to dance with others, instead of sitting in the corner watching her friends dance. Not only was it nice to see her pick this up so quickly, it helped me rethink through the basic moves I had learned three months ago, since I had to both think about how to explain them to someone who didn’t know them, as well as to think through the counts from the perspective of a follow, by turning on the 6 (for follows) versus the 2 (for leads).
Assuming I’m not misleading the new dancer, I can’t fathom this as being harmful, so long as I’m doing it respectfully and not going beyond my own limits by trying to teach something I myself haven’t mastered yet or am unqualified to teach. I personally find that if I can teach something or explain it to others, it helps me remember and understand it better.
Hey James!
What you’re referring to is definitely not the type of floor teaching that I’m talking about. Complete beginners (who have no experience) are somewhat of an exception to the rule – IF the advice is something that the beginner is eager to receive AND the person doing the ‘teaching’ is doing so in good faith – not to show superiority or to ‘ego pat’.
To me, what you describe sounds more like a ‘hint’, or ‘co-operative learning’, which I discuss in a follow up here.
I am a follower and I sometimes stop (usually newer, but sometimes not so new) leads who for example spin me in a way that twists my shoulder or start dancing with the wrong foot, making it difficult to follow then. When I stop them, I tell them why in a as friendly way as possible (that it hurts my shoulder for example) and then I guide them to how to make the move smoother. You are writing about compensating for partners mistakes, but risk of injuries is not something you can compensate for or ignore and then try avoiding that person for the rest of the dance. I cannot let them continue with this because (if I stick to the example with the shoulder-twist) 1) it will hurt/injure me; 2) if I don’t tell them that they are doing it wrong and teach them how to do it right, they will injure someone else; 3) if nobody tells them that they are doing something wrong, they will believe that they can dance perfectly (and maybe eventually turn into those annoying types you write about); 4) other followers will try avoiding them after one dance and they will think it’s because of their personality. Teaching on the dancefloor is therefore a responsibility – especially in cases like this.
I once dance with a guy who I didn’t really “click with” (I think he had too loose signals, but don’t remember) and he was not a professional. Sure he knew the steps and such, but he couldn’t make me follow him because his signals didn’t reach me. He then asked me if I knew a certain move and I said yes (I had even danced it with other leads before him that night), but he still gave me a “lesson” on how to do it… I just nodded, finished the song with him and decided I won’t do more social with him… This is actually the only encounter I’ve had that matches what you write about. Other than that, I once asked a guy to give me feedback and I was happy for the feedback (but I was not happy about the way he gave me the feedback, but that’s a whole different story).
What I found odd in the comments and in your text is that you assume that the lead usually knows more than the follower. In my experience, the followers (usually girls) tend to remember both their steps and the leader steps, which results in them trying to teach their leads more often than the other way around. (But I guess we live in different environments, which gives a difference in experiences).
What annoys me the most on the dancefloor is that if a girl/woman tries to help a guy with steps (for example during dance class or social after a class) and the guy doesn’t take her seriously and says that he will only listen to the male teacher/otherexperienced male lead, who – of-course – says the same thing as the girl to the lead some minutes later, but the lead still doesn’t acknowledge the follower for future advise. This just leads to a lot of waiting for another male lead to come and help and thereby less dance for both the follower and the lead and that’s just disrespectful…
I don’t understand what problem you have with a pair trying to develop their dance skills by practicing in a less crowded part of the dancefloor. Frankly, it’s rude to say that they should “go somewhere else” to dance. If the pair (whether they know each-other or not) both have taken time of whatever they do otherwise in life to dance during that event, then it is the place where they should practice moves. And being on the dancefloor (in a corner) when practicing gives the opportunity for each of them to later on test their wings with someone else on the dancefloor. Don’t take the joy away from people who want to dance. Everyone is being social in their own way in life and this also applies to social dancing – some want to have fun, some want to find someone to sleep with, some want to learn new things or polish their skills, some want to dance with many while others prefer dancing with only one, and some are there because of their boyfriend/girlfriend without knowing how to dance
Hey! Thanks for your feedback 🙂
I have nothing against talking to a person who is hurting you – but that is different than teaching on the floor. And usually, it only lasts for a matter of seconds, whereas teaching is a longer-process thing. While it is definitely your responsibility to protect yourself, I don’t think it’s appropriate to try to ‘educate’ other social dancers – especially when unsolicited. I actually wrote a follow-up article about this, which differentiates between teaching, asking, etc.
I think my comments about the male-female dynamic have been misconstrued. What I was commenting on is the fact that the ‘education’ by a social dancer is often from a male lead who is looking to impress a brand-new follow. It has nothing to do with the man *Actually* knowing more, or the idea that women aren’t sometimes the teachers. It’s simply the more frequent floor-teaching scenario.
Feedback during class is completely different from on the floor, though at times, people in the class prefer to only take feedback from the teacher – whether male or female. If a guy refuses to listen to a teacher regardless of gender, it’s silly. On the dance floor, most people aren’t looking to ‘learn’. They’re just looking to have fun. And, that’s the entire irritation with floor-teaching. Even if you are a teacher, it’s not your job to educate people while social dancing.
I actually address briefly why I don’t like couples teaching each other on a social dance floor. It disrupts the flow of the floor, and can lead to collisions. If it’s a bare floor with lots of room, sure – but it’s certainly inappropriate for crowded or busy locations to stand still on the floor. Note that I have no issue with *practicing* movements with a known partner – which is completely different than coaching or teaching someone on the floor and actively teaching.
There are many more appropriate places for classes than in the middle of a social dance. Even with good friends who want to discuss a certain move at an event, I typically practice or talk to them off of the actual floor. I don’t want to disrupt the floor!