Yesterday, I published an article about why some artists may not social dance all night at parties. Several dancers responded, and said they felt it was a near-mandatory part of an artist’s job because social dancers are their “employer”.
Some also felt that it wasn’t an obligation, but not social dancing makes you a ‘dick’. Others stated that since it can be a highlight for attendees, artists should do it.
I can understand where these feelings come from, but this is why I disagree with these ideas.
“Social Dancers are the Artist’s Employer”
Social dancers are not the employer.
I know that social dancers are the backbone of our community. But, they’re not the ones ’employing’ the artists. Being the consumer of a particular service is not the same as being the employer. That’s like saying a retail sales associate is ’employed’ by the customer.
They’re not; they’re employed by the company that owns the store. The people who pay them for their services. Not the customers who buy clothing.
But, if you’re paying for a private lesson, then you’re in more of a contractor position with the artist. You’re still not their employer, but you’re a heck of a lot closer to it. You are now giving them money for their services.
“Without Social Dancers, there Wouldn’t be Artists”
Well, yeah. But, without artists, event organizers, and DJs, would we have a community like we do today?
We’re part of the same ecosystem. We all contribute to it. Trying to say that social dancers are the only important part of the ecosystem and that everyone else must consider their needs first is a bit overboard.
They may be the blood. But, they’re not the skeleton – the artists are. They’re not the muscles – that’s the organizers and leaders. All parts need the other parts.
So, we need to take care of our artists and organizers with the same care we say needs to be paid to our social dancers.
“It’s part of their job!”
When you say that an artist should make themselves available to dance with attendees in all circumstances, you are asking them to do extra work for free. It may be fun work, but it’s still work.
So, if top artists should do extra work for free, we’re saying they should social dance “for exposure” (or, in the social dance case, “for reputation”).
If they social dance anyway, that’s great! But, it’s an extra they choose to do for one reason or another – not part of the job.
“I work full-time and still dance after workshops!”
Your job isn’t dancing. Theirs is.
When you go to a weekend, it’s your vacation. You get to choose exactly what you want to do, when you want to sleep, and more. Yes, you pay to attend. And yes, you may have a stressful job.
But, being a dance instructor is easily also a 40-60 hour a week commitment. That’s excluding the social dancing.
Yes, they chose this. But, being tired and on vacation is very different than being tired after finishing a 14-hour work day. Imagine if your boss insisted you go out to dinner with your clients every day after work.
“Artists MUST love social dancing to be artists!”
You can’t just demand an artist enjoy a social dance. If you could just demand that certain people like certain things, I’d really like math.
Heck, even things I do like (for example, reading) can’t be demanded. I don’t like some books. I fell asleep reading Lord of the Rings. That doesn’t mean I’m now a bad reader and writer.
The reason that many professionals spend at least a couple hours each night dancing is because they love to dance. They probably wouldn’t be professional dancers in a social style if they didn’t enjoy it.
But, it’s hard to enjoy things when you’re exhausted, “on the clock” but not getting paid, and viewed as a consumable good. Even if a pro usually likes social dancing, not everyone enjoys every social night. Give them the space to not be ‘into it’ for a night.
“Artists who don’t social dance are dicks!”
It’s fair to assess that the artists which go ‘above and beyond’ get a reputation for being awesome. This is great – and they deserve having a reputation to match their commitment!
But, the problem is not the appreciation of artists who go above and beyond.The problem is when we make artists who don’t go above and beyond every night into a ‘snob’ because they only danced for an hour or two at the party, or preferred the company of their friends.
Artists don’t deserve being forced to ‘find time’ to social dance after a 14-hour day. They don’t deserve to be told they should give up income from privates in order to social dance. They’re not indentured servants.
Actual Behavioral Issues
In all of the discussion surrounding the last article, the theme of the “Badly Behaved Artist” kept coming up.
As many responses pointed out, rude artists will get a reputation for rudeness. So will the always-drunk artists. These artists tarnish their own reputation. It’s totally reasonable to be angry about the pro who is rudely disengaged with all the new, non-instructor dancers.
But, this is different from understanding the pro who goes to bed early, or enjoys dancing for part of the night with other pros. And, it’s very different from feeling that the pros ‘owe’ you something because you like their work.
As one person pointed out, it’s about finding balance.
A Radical Idea
If artists going social dancing is important and we want to support our communities, should we pay them to social dance?
I guarantee you that many artists would be thrilled to be hired for social dancing instead of workshops and shows. If an organizer told me “I’ll pay your normal fee and expenses to come and social dance 6 hours a night for four nights”, I’d so be down.
If an event has 20 artists and wants to mandate that each one of them dance 4 hours each night at a fair rate of $100 per hour, that’s an extra $24,000 for a standard 3-night event.
Let’s say that event has 200 paid attendees. Are you willing to pay an extra $120 per pass to compensate the artists for their extra time on the clock?
Unrealistic Expectations
This idea that all artists must dance with everyone at every event because they ‘owe it’ to the social dancers needs to stop.
We need to learn how to respect our artists as people – not as magical dance entities. Yes, their work as artists is incredible. It’s great to admire that work – but we shouldn’t use it to idolize or dehumanize them.
We need to stop looking at great dancers as a synonym for being a great person. We need to hold artists accountable for their bad behavior. We can figure out how to appreciate great skill, without placing the person on a pedestal.
But, we also need to remember that artists aren’t machines. They are doing a job. This is their profession. They deserve fair compensation for their work, and they should be allowed to have fun in this world they help support. They should be able to take time to look after their personal needs and wants.
Let’s look to finding a bit more balance in our expectations of pros, and ourselves. Let’s remove the idea of the ‘always on’ pro, and understand the difference between someone who’s just really not feeling it – and someone who actually has bad intentions.
Excellent article with many many viewpoints. I am a self employ c/w and swing instructor in Dallas Ft Worth and though I love to social dance, it is hard after a long day and group class. I will dance when asked though….. Many times I don’t get to dance because guys are afraid to ask. Ladies are more apt to ask than guys. When I don’t get asked or I am busy, it’s a wonderful rest and love just chatting with everyone. Many students don’t understand all the aspects you pointed out. It is one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos to you
I agree that all artists should also social dance.
1. for the love of their fans.
2. to express the art.
3. as events expect them too.
But remember, that artists are professional dancers. They dance from 9 am – 6 pm full-time and even more. They teach classes, team rehearsals, teach privates, and their own personal privates, classes, training etc. Some of them even plan events and congresses! Time is money. Time and work are their physical well-being, self-care, while satisfying all their customers. They are human also. They need breaks. They need families and their personal lives. So, give them a break if you don’t see them out on the dance floor every night of the week and partying till 4am in the morning at congresses. We want our artists to be alive after all, so we can torture them some more xD
Great article.. but there are a few bad apples out there that are snobby. I used to love the dance scene.. but After 7 yrs I had to quit because of my health. I noticed after three or four years out of the scene new people pushed me out of the loop. Wasn’t something I was used to. I had grown custom to being let into clubs for free, being given hotel rooms at conventions and being welcomed to events. But since I haven’t been involved in the community anymore, since I haven’t competed in the past 4-5 years I’ve noticed people who I thought were my friends we’re just fake. Yes we’ve grown apart. Pretentious people I started to think. I hardly ever social dance anymore because I think pros no longer want to dance with me and I no longer want to dance with beginner’s only. I would always dance with everyone. Back in the day I used to be on three teams at the same time. Back then everyone kissed my cheek. Now everyone is stuck up in exclusivity. It’s sickening that the world I thought was so opening and inviting was really just One sided because of who I was associated with.
It’s not about expecting them to social dance. Any social dance teacher should actually enjoy social dancing. As soon as they view social dancing as just “part of the job” then they’ve kinda lost the plot. It’s not part of the job, it’s the reason why they have the job.
It’s more about the integrity of the artist. Are they genuinely too tired to social dance or are they actively avoiding it for some other reason? The only person that can answer it is the artists themselves.
In my opinion social dance is something very personal, which has to come from the heart, like massages or intimate touching. Yes, you can “sell” this, like you can prostitute yourself, but you must not FORCE others to sell it. Pros are human beings; if they are shy, don’t want to be touched (in general or by you) or don’t feel well this evening, they can do whatever they want; even go to bed early.
I do not understand how somebody can have the opinion to “own” them; they are artists, not slaves. But of course they know, that they will be liked and booked more, when they do the clown for every selfie for facebook, go to lunch with the organizer, social dance with everybody, make flattery and compliments for average dancers with a big ego and so on.
These are great articles. But still begs some question. There is obvious big demand for social dancing pros on the big dance events.
Why not (as organizers) just hire few artists (as part of their paid contracted job) to provide even this service. And include it into official program (“21:00 – 22:00 social dancing with xxx, 22:00 – 23:00 social dancing with yyy”)
As far as I see it, big issue is also caused by the fact that there is usually big silence and mystery around how much the pros will social dance. Teh customer dont know what is he paing for and then can be dissapointed if he expect something else. When you pay for the event you know exact time schedule of the workshops. You know who will teach it. You know what will be tought. You know when the parties start. What kind of music will paly in each hall. Sometimes you know dress code. You know who will play the music. etc. In these areas you know exactly what you are paying for. But you dont know anything about the dancing with pros. There is demand for it, but you dont knnow what will you get if you attent the event.
I believe if the orginezers would just included “No social dancing with pros planned” (or even better planned some as part fo the event) info event information, then nobody would complain.
I dont think that actually works. Its going to be way to expensive. Ticket prices as mentioned somewhere else would raise quite a lot , and I am not willing to pay that much more just so some people can have dances with “celebrities”.
But i agree on the Information part and knowing what you will get for the Money
haha…if I go to my local ballroom dance and theres more women then men, i get asked a lot. If theres more men then women i dont get asked and I sit most of the night. So if you want to be a male pro go to dances with lots of women
Excellent articles Laura, the commentariat though beggars belief. I can only look at this from the perspective of argentine tango, not dancing other social dances, but I just do not understand some people’s expectations… There seems to be a huge number of people with inflated egos thinking there is some sort of obligation on the part of artists. Seriously, what? Where does this idea even come from? What makes you think that whatever number of years you have been hobbying away at a dance somehow entitles you to this? We don’t expect this of professional teachers in any other discipline (other sports and arts), do we?
When you attend a festival or conference, what you pay for are lessons with these people. If they perform, part of your money will go to foot the bill charged for a performance. That’s it. The argument that there is a demand for it confuses demand with desire.
No one is under any obligation to dance with someone else to begin with. As others have pointed out, professionals have extra reasons not to do this. The risk of injury for them is more than just a nuisance, but a direct threat to their livelihood.
Treat these people with some respect, review your own unrealistic expectations, and be grateful if they do decide to mingle.
If you spend your whole day at work making coffee for other people, do you want to go home and spend several more hours making coffee for other people?
“Imagine if your boss insisted you go out to dinner with your clients every day after work.” Um, yes, that’s a requirement of a lot of people’s jobs, and you do it. Work often consists of more than just executing the function, there is often a networking / social aspect that goes with it. Whether a pro social dances or not, I think if they’re in the ballroom they should be available for social dances. Being turned down is humiliating to the person asking, and only dancing with other pros is rude and arrogant.
My personal feeling about this:
If going out to dinner with my clients is a requirement for my job, then I negotiate (and receive) compensation for this up front. I would never allow an employer to assume that my time or energy was available at their discretion beyond our explicit agreements. As such, any decision I make to go above and beyond in what I do belongs to me.
If I am turned down by a pro when asking to dance – I don’t feel that its humiliating at all, its respectable – they felt to turn down a dance. My request was only an offer – with an aspiration to create something mutually fulfilling, it was never an expectation. They are experiencing their own journey, and will share whatever is in their heart to share – and hopefully feel free in doing so.
As to wether only dancing with other pro’s is arrogant or not – my jury is out on that one. Its hard to know what someone else’s needs, motivations or intentions are unless they share them. so I’d really want to be careful about how I interpret it.
I really appreciated your first article and the responses. Jimmy and I have been on Pro Staff for many events for the past 15 years as instructors and judges. We truly love social dancing, but the obligations to the event sometimes prevent us from having enough time or energy to stay out all night. In addition, we usually have our young children in tow which adds even more responsibility. Jimmy usually has a line of ladies trying to get a dance and he loves to dance with them, but sometimes they are relentless and get upset when he needs to take a break, get water, or take his inhaler because he is going into an asthma attack! We have also been on staff for events that mandate our social dancing. Honestly, this takes a bit of the fun out of it. I love asking random people to dance, but if they are required to buy a ticket to dance with me…well, it makes me feel awkward. Just a suggestion, if you are next in line to dance with a Pro that in drowning in sweat, perhaps ask them if they would like to take a song to rest and get water…catch you for a dance later. Walk them off the floor to the water cooler. In my experience, they will remember your kindness. Again, these are great articles and I have shared them with our students!
Wow! I see a bunch of straw man arguments here, but that’s not all. There are a bunch of matching unrealistic expectations too by social dancers. Are people human? Yes. Do we have a Dance Community? Yes. Arguments about who hires who concerns the economy that funds the dances, yet our real concern is the Dance Community. At times the dance economy interests run counter to the Dance Community. While we need effective organizing and funding, lets please be more high minded than just relying on bean counter views to advance dancing.
Are Pros going to get tired? Are they going to limit their dancing until after their performances? Yes and yes. I help run Salsa Fuego in Pittsburgh and its exhausting to keep up with attention to the details and do all the dancing. I’ve also run marathons so its not a question of endurance! We should respect the fact that Pros are human and have limits and deserve their own lives.
There is a feeding cycle where the Pros reputation is built in part by being out on the dance floor showing off their craft. So the Pro has his own driving interests for social dancing. We would hope that they care about the larger dance community and contribute their personal charisma to the event. This gets noticed by the event organizers and it increases the pull of the event for those Pros who understand this.
Its been commented on here before, but probably the issue is are Pros strictly training as performance dancers and not doing enough social dancing to keep those skills fresh? If they just train with high level partners in routines they can easily become less comfortable with social dancing. I know that a night of dancing with lower level dancers is more exhausting because its a lot of work to dance well and accommodate their less accurate movements and unpredictable reflexes.
But do we want a Pro who is obsessively training for the next worlds competition to have an embarrassing time dancing socially with us? So we have a complex subject here. I think its better when the Pros do regular social dancing and this is better for the dance community, but I also don’t want to go around being critical of them. Let’s instead look at our own dancing, there are more of us and if we will be patient in dancing with new dancers and being open to dancers of other levels, its one way to grow the Dance Community.
“If you spend your whole day at work making coffee for other people, do you want to go home and spend several more hours making coffee for other people?” Yes – if making coffee is my biggest passion. Then I go home and try new recipes, research for new coffee trends, go to coffee-making parties and meet other coffee-nerds 🙂
How can someone teach social dancing, if he/she doesn’t dance socially?
I don’t know what everyone’s experience is, but i don’t go to social dancing, to dance with other professionals, i would rather ask other regulars that possibly are out of town.
When you see these pros on the dance floor, usually with other pros, they don’t dance much different, then what they are like on stage.
Social Dancing should be more fun, and less flashy with every movement, to enjoy the song, and not just try to do as many things as possible, and it can be impressive, but after a while, it just looks too much, just to get the attention from the crowd, and makes me look away.
I gravitate towards Jorge and Tanya for their bachata, because they seem more like social dancers, and show a varied passion to the tempo, unlike some other artists in their field.
I wouldn’t mind having a more relaxed festival at times. Have good teachers there, have them do a bit fewer workshops, skip the shows and instead have them social dance a few hours in the parties. The overall amount of hours they’d need to work would remain the same so the prices should be about the same, too. Obviously the price per workshop goes up because there’d be fewer workshops, but if you buy the full pass for the weekend it’d work out roughly the same.
We had a weekender that would’ve been perfect for this kind of setting last year. It was with a normal setup with full classes and shows and no ‘paid’ social dancing although all of the artists did dance on the social floor every night at least for some time. I would’ve been ok with them getting to relax even more and just dance. I am aware not everyone might’ve thought so, though.
(As a comment to these two articles: I’m with you. There’s only so much you can expect them to do ‘for free’. We’re lucky that in most of our local festivals the international people actually do want to dance socially, too. Some more, some less. Still, as they are smaller festivals it’s actually possible to dance with all the big stars and sometimes it’s wonderful. 🙂 )
Obligating pros to social dance without compensation is like expecting a free consult with a physician you happen to sit next to on a plane. I have too much respect for my pro instructors and enough humility about my own dance level to do that! I teach beginners and intermediates to social dance, and at events I make every effort to ask unpartnered women to dance so they remember the joy that got them started in the first place. But for bigger events, I’ve paid my pros by the hour at a rate they named to partner exclusively with me. Dancing is an exchange of energy, as is conducting a financial transaction. I don’t ask for freebies.
I am always very aware that my dance partner is enjoying themselves. As much as I enjoy social dancing, I want my partner to be happy as well. Whenever I ask a pro or instructor to dance I always say ‘you don’t have to’ or ‘only if you aren’t too tired’ or ‘only if you would like to’, I want to give them the honest impression that I truly wouldn’t mind the rejection at all, we should be free and not obligated at a party. And I always thank them very much for the enjoyment afterwards. I think at the end of the day, a party is a party, it is meant for enjoyment, for all people including pros. I might ask a pro once for a dance, and then leave them to ask me again if they want, something I’ve had more often than I’d expect!