I’ve seen a lot on Facebook for months about ‘dance queues’, where follows (or leads, in some situations) line up for a particular pro. Sometimes, these lines can be as long as 20 or more dancers… or basically, around an hour wait time. Usually, this happens when there’s a big lead/follow imbalance at a big event – but not always. It’s also *usually* female follows waiting for a big-name male lead.
While this article is written from the perspective of leads who talk badly about follows, it can be applied both ways. However, I’ve never seen follows hating on leads for dance-queues, so I’m going with the most common denominator.
I’ve also seen a lot of angry leaders when it comes to this phenomenon. I’ve seem remarks that:
- Call these follows stupid and entitled
- Call the follows rude for turning down dances “with perfectly adequate or good dancers” while they’re waiting for that pro
- Feel upset that “all the follows only want to dance with those pro’s – not mere mortals”
- Talk about behavior to ‘get back at’ the follows (i.e. – rejecting them, refusing to dance with them later, etc.)
Can this seriously get any more petty?
To be clear, I don’t like the queue culture. I prefer the strategy of keeping my eye out for when that ‘prized leader’ *is not* surrounded by a throng of adoring fans. For example, when they’re coming back to the room after a break. I also think that it doesn’t give the queued follows the best dance with that pro, as the pro is generally overworked and overdanced.
I also feel bad for the pro’s who get trapped in a situation where they’re simply running through the motions and being treated like a piece of meat. I sympathize with the feeling of not being able to take a break without letting down some people ‘waiting their turn’. It sucks. Quite frankly, we should be looking at ways to disassemble the ‘queue culture’ that has developed in some dances in certain places.
However, these are not the issues I’m looking to address.
Unless these follows patiently waiting in line for their dream dance with their idol have actually done something rude, I’m not going to get on the hate-train.
Social dancing is about doing what will make us happy. It’s about dancing with people who make us happy to music that makes us happy and having a connection that makes us happy. If waiting in line for an hour for that dream dance is what makes a follow happy – are we really the better person for trash-talking them?
People line up at midnight for hours to see Star Wars or for a video game release. They wait hours for a chance to snap a photo of a red carpet star. On Boxing Day, people camp out overnight for a deal on a big screen TV. People in our community will spend hundreds of dollars to fly around the world for a weekend of dancing.
But somehow, standing in a queue is… the worst thing ever?
“But dance queues are bad for dance culture!”
Ok… but that doesn’t give you license to be mean to the people waiting in the queues. Call on your pro’s for better dancefloor-practices, like moving around the floor or dancing in the middle of the room. Look at preventative practices. The prevention starts with the pro – not the follows who are desperate to get that one ‘dream’ dance.
The truth is, the follows who most often wait in queues are the ones who are newer to the congress environment and have never had a chance to dance with a pro outside a queue. They just look at it as a thing they have to do to get that dance – especially if there’s a lead/follow imbalance.
It’s not their fault. If they didn’t wait in the queue, it’s very rare that they’d get a chance to dance with that pro. If that’s what they really want out of the weekend, then of course they’re going to wait in the damn queue. They’re a product of a practice already in place – not its root cause!
You want to fix the dance queue culture? Talk about the root of the problem. Not about the poor follow at her first congress who is there because she saw that star on YouTube and really, really, REALLY wants to experience that dance juuust once… even if it means waiting an hour.
Are queues good? No, they’re not. But, it doesn’t make it OK to be mean to people in them.
“But those follows refuse to dance with perfectly good dancers who ask them to dance when they’re in line!”
You kinda walked into that one. Waiting in line for a pro is kind of a pretty easy signal that they’re not looking for other invitations to dance. Like holding a glass of water, or being deep in conversation with someone.
If you’re asking someone waiting in line for a dance, you are probably going to get shut down. It’s like asking the person waiting in line for a Star Wars ticket to come over and grab a ticket for another movie. They’re waiting for Star Wars. If they leave the line, they’ll lose their spot, and have to start all over. Why would they do that? They’ve already been waiting for 4 songs; they don’t want to start over.
They’ve made their choice – and it doesn’t make them a bad person. Saying ‘no’ for any reason is legitimate – whether or not you agree with their motivations. Would you rather that, or the follow looking over their shoulder every two seconds at the pro they wish they were standing in line for? If you really want to dance with that person, come back later when they’re not in line for their dance-idol.
If you don’t care about dancing with that particular follow, why are you hating on them? What about the multitude of other follows who are NOT in line? There’s usually a lot. If you really didn’t care about the level of the person you were dancing with and only wanted an engaging dance, why not go ask one of the follows who actually is waiting to be asked?
“But it’s stupid to wait the whole night for one dance!”
To you, it’s stupid and you would never do it. To them, it could be why they spent $500-$1,000 to come to the event. Maybe that person is who inspired them to start dancing. Maybe the thing that they’ve been hoping to do for years is to share one social dance with that star. Stop being the judgemental person.
There’s a good chance they’ll do it for 1-2 events and then realize they don’t like queues. They may very well decide they would rather have a ton of great dances with people just like you. For now, let them have their pro line-ups. If you want to change the fact that there are line-ups, it needs to start with the pro.
You don’t have to like it. You don’t have to do it. You don’t have to hate on others for doing it. You can even think the IDEA is stupid without calling the PEOPLE stupid. These follows are not hurting anyone, and that dance could be really important to them. I don’t hate on my friends who wait for 4 hours in the freezing Canadian cold for Boxing Day sales. I think the idea is stupid, but I don’t think my friends are stupid for doing something that makes them happy.
“Well, I make sure to NEVER ask those follows for a dance. I’ll also shoot them down if they ask me, because they’re entitled and bitchy.”
… If this is your attitude, I don’t think that bitchy girls are why you’re getting rejected. That’s a terrible attitude.
If someone has ACTUALLY been rude to you, go ahead, decline. But, if you’re declining because you disagree with their choice to wait for a dance with a particular pro? That’s really petty. If they’re asking you later, it’s because they want to dance with you. They’re done with their lineup, have gotten their happy-dance, and are now ready to mix-n-mingle.
Don’t be an ass – there’s really no reason for it. I’m all for declining dances that you can’t give your all to, but doing the whole “let-me-get-back-at-you-for-something-unrelated-to-me-that-I-think-is-stupid” mentality is really not cool. Plus, they’re probably not going to know that’s why you’re rejecting them unless you tell them.
If you do tell them the reason then… Seriously? Was it really necessary to make someone feel like shit for something they did to try and make their weekend special?
I have seen rude behavior in dance lines. I’ve seen side-eyes, aggressive behavior, and rudeness towards pro’s and other dancers. That’s not OK. But I’ve also seen new girls who are totally enamored by the opportunity to just have one dance with that pro, and follows who sit quietly simply waiting for the opportunity. I’ve witnessed follows ‘respecting the line’, and making sure that the next in line gets ‘their’ dance.
It’s not just ‘bitchy’ follows in lines. It’s also quiet follows, new follows, shy follows, experienced follows, and sweet follows. There’s one or two rude ones, sure… but they’re usually not even the majority!
Dancing should be about kindness and fun.
When you start tearing apart these follows, you’re not creating an atmosphere of kindness and fun. When I see leads who rip apart all of these queue follows online, it makes me want to dance with those leads less – not more. It exposes an edge tinged with callous judgement, which makes me (as a follow) feel very uncomfortable.
If you are spending your time judging other dancers, you’re taking away from your ability to give great dances, receive great dances, and have fun. Instead, you’re channeling your energy into a negative pit of what you perceive as a slight against you.
If you don’t like the behavior, go find another follow. There’s MANY of them out there. If you would rather stay away from the lines – do it. Go grab the follow who is alone in a corner, just wishing someone would ask them to dance. Go ask the newbie who is so nervous that they’re shaking when you first hold them, and give them your positivity until you feel their body relax.
Prove how generous a dancer you can be, instead of showing how much you can judge other people.
Sorry. I have read the post twice and could not find it. What *is* the root cause? To few leads? To few *good* leads?
I get that you really want to dance with someone. But if there are too few leads, or too few good leads, waiting in line (= not dancing) for an hour or so, that gives pretty strong signals to most leads out there: “You are not worth spending my time with.” “Unless you become *this* good, I’d rather wait in line forever than dance with you.”
Exactly how does this encourage leads to come to the dance and stay in the community?
Everone is entitled to their own way. And I completely agree that talking badly about others is not ok. But from my perspective, dance queues are bad. They don’t encourage people to dance, and now I am not saying that is “dance right now”. I am saying that they don’t encourage people to dance period. If there are too few (good) leads today, dance queues sure as **** won’t make any more tomorrow. So, to all follows standing in line, do you just want a handful of pros or a thriving dance community?
Waiting a dance or two for a chance to dance with that special someone, sure I get it. But for an hour? If there were so many more follows than leads that piles were just waiting to get a dance, make that line if you want to. But if a dance queue just makes one lead, beginner or average, not getting to dance and walking home because of this, no matter if he was turned down by the followers in the queue or not – that queue was bad and has hurt the community as a whole.
So this is to all followers out there: If you want good leads, make sure they dance. Make sure they dance *a lot*. Encourage them to get better at leading. Discouraging them is counterproductive. Long dance queues leading to idle leads is discouraging.
I am not a very good dancer. Doing ok, but have a looong way to go. Most often when I dance socially, I get to dance with follows that are newer to the dance than I am, less experienced. The more experienced ones, not counting those far above my level – just the ones roughly where I am, seem to hunt for the far more experienced leads. So far I have been ok with this, but this is the kind of behaviour that will ultimately make me stop dancing altogether. I usually see more attitude coming from follows than from leads. YMMV.
DiL, always appreciate your feedback 🙂
This article was not about root cause. However, I see it most frequently when there is an imbalance in the number of follows and leaders – not simply lots of lower-skilled leaders. There are places where I’ve danced in a 3-1 ratio of follows to leads. I actually ended up only following 1-2 songs the entire night, because competition for the majority of the leads was so fierce (I just switched to leading, but most follows don’t have that luxury.)
I do agree that queues are not a good thing for a dance scene, and they are not conducive to encouraging dancer growth. However, addressing the negative aspects of a dance queue does not (and should not) need to involve trashing the characters of the follows waiting in line. This applies whether the line is 2 people long or 20 people long. It’s just not OK to start trashing someone because of what you ‘anticipate’ their motives are.
I almost never see the extent of queue I am talking about in congresses with a relatively even balance. For example, in North America for Zouk, I very rarely see these kinds of queues developing unless there is one teacher visiting from out-of-town and all the local follows want to get a dance in before the end of the night. Even then, it’s usually only 2-3 people. However, I have seen it most extensively in some European events that have a very, very large difference between number of follows and leads.
In a perfect world, everyone will dance with everyone and have fun doing it. There would be no dance queues. However, at the current point, the best we can do is discourage the formation of queues through education and how the pro’s behave – and also refrain from demonizing the people who are standing in the queue. It may not be the best idea to participate in queue culture, but it doesn’t make them ‘bitchy’, ‘arrogant’ or ‘stupid’ for standing in that line.
Also, some follows end up in dance queues because at least that way they’re guaranteed a dance *eventually*. If it’s a badly imbalanced event, you can go for multiple hours as a follow without an invitation… and some even get snubbed if you do the asking.
Perhaps you’re seeing more of the snubbing behavior from follows because you are a lead, and leads do the balance of the asking? As a follow, I’ve been snubbed more often by leads than when I reverse into a ‘lead’ role and ask traditional follows.
If the ratio is extreme, I understand the frustration and wish to stand in line just the get even one dance. And no one should be demonized because of this. To anyone that trash talks: grow up!
Guess I am lucky not having attended events where it has been this bad. Personally I feel bad enough when I am dancing and I see several follows standing around just waiting for someone to dance with. It is not fun trying to have fun knowing others aren’t having fun.
I think it boils down to the same problem. The imbalance between leads and follows and people not acknowledging this properly.
Not only the obvious imbalance in numbers, but also in expectation and learning curve. In some dances it is not so bad, but in others it can take say a year to become a pretty good follow but several years to become a lead at the same level.
There is not much we can do to improve on this fact, but we can make sure that leads continue to improve and dance and not getting discouraged. Otherwise we just maintain the imbalance in numbers. The learning curve is harder to do something about, patience is the only general advice I have.
And stop talking trash about each other, that is just detrimental to the dance community.
I guess as a lead in North America, I’ve rarely noticed queues. The few times that I have noticed, it is usually when a follow accepts my invite but wistfully comments how their prized lead is so hard to get a dance with. Those follows are friends, which is probably why I wasn’t turned down, and also probably why they mentioned that they were waiting.
My response to that is that, with all the stuff I usually try to keep my attention on during a dance, I also try to keep an eye on their ‘target’ during the dance, and try to maneuver to be fairly close to said ‘target’. When the song ends, I go, “he’s open” (if he is) and start to direct them towards the Prized Lead (head start in positioning & timing). They usually look at me and hesitate since they don’t want to be rude by rushing off, and I have to hustle them onwards before they miss a chance (“go, go, quickly, before someone else gets to him”).
Sorry ‘Prized Lead’, but not really sorry. 😀
Personally (emphasis on the fact this is just my experience and opinion), while nowadays if I know the professional, I definitely don’t mind sticking around the area or grabbing them for a dance if I notice they’re available, I don’t see the point in rejecting dances from others while ‘queuing’.
I remember when I was at one of my first congresses, I really wanted to dance with a certain professional,who i’d only seen dancing and heard about how great he was (i.e. i hadn’t had any social interactions, ot so much as a ‘hello, how are you?’ beforehand) and was waiting around the area for about an hour trying to pluck up the courage to ask him to dance before someone else jumped in and asked. I ended up missing over about 2 hours of dancing before I asked him, because I always felt too guilty jumping in as he looked so exhausted I thought ‘he can rest this song and then I’ll ask him after that’…but no one was thinking on my level :p so he just kept going until it came to a ‘it’s now or never’ point in terms of asking.
Anyway, after building up such anticipation, and waiting for so long, it was not that good. Not because he wasn’t a fantastic lead (because he was)…but the social connection or roles just wasn’t enjoyable. After waiting so long, and having watched him dance with girl after girl, i’d managed to build up a feeling of entitlement towards it. What I mean by this, was that I felt almost like a customer who’d been waiting in line for something and they are entitled to that product. This is an awful thing to say, but it does objectify the professionals in a way, and I ended up feeling quite guilty for ‘making’ this dancer give me what I wanted when he was tired, rather than just sharing the experience and having fun and a good connection.
On the other hand, I had a couple of other experiences as a beginner where i’d never heard of certain professionals (and being a beginner was there bang on the start time of the party) and they had asked me to dance without knowing who they were and it was fantastic and I felt like a million dollars. I can see why people want to dance with professionals, but i think it takes out the magic if you wait in line for it.
There’s not much that can be done unfortunately, since each person is different, and there will always be new people who haven’t heard the message. I believe that professionals do their best to dance with beginners, but can appreciate it’s a different experience dancing with someone advanced and they teach it because it’s their passion so should be able to dance with whoever they want to too.
My advice to queuers would be to not bother or to get to the party early and grab the professionals then before it gets busy and a queue forms. I’m quite lucky as in Europe there are often lots of smaller workshops that are just with one professional where you get to know them better and everyone gets a dance with them at the social. If you want to dance with a professional without it seeming like a factory conveyer belt…my advice would be to seek these smaller events for that instead of big congresses. 🙂
Thank you for your thoughts, Lauren! 🙂 I love your approach and attitude!
Wow. I have to say, 1) it sounds awful and 2) I didn’t know there were literal queues at dances. When I saw the title I thought it was going to be about a non-physical type of queue. I have asked a lead to dance and been told that he’d promised the next [1-3] dances to people already. Usually he’d come find me; if not, I’d be keeping an eye on him and ask when I knew he was open.
Where is this “queue culture” most prevalent? Again, I have been in dance queues, but only small ones, and not literal ones; I was still free to dance with others while waiting. I live in USA
I’ve seen it most in very uneven lead-follow ratio scenes in Latin dances and Zouk – but it’s not unheard of in WCS either.