No one enjoys a dance creep. They’re the ones who won’t take ‘No’ for an answer, dance a little-too-close, and won’t leave you alone on Facebook for weeks. The really bad ones also try to get handsy on the floor, or will do crazy stuff like follow you to your car or room.
A dance creep is anyone who engages in behavior that makes those around them feel uncomfortable or threatened. Dance creeps can be men or women. They can be any age, or dance level. They can be intentionally or unintentionally doing the creepy behavior.
So, what can we do to make sure we’re not a dance creep?
Step 1: Don’t do the ‘obvious’ creepy things.
This should be common-sense. You should never do things that you know are unwanted or creepy. For example:
- Touching someone inappropriately on or off the dance floor without express consent.
- Forcing yourself on someone.
- Refusing to listen to an express ‘No’.
- Threatening, coercing, or guilting someone into specific behavior.
- Following, stalking, or harassing people.
Most creeps don’t do the ‘obvious’ things that are clear-cut harassment or assault. This is an extreme minority of the population. But, in any conversation about eliminating creepiness, the point must be made that this things have never and will never be OK.
Step 2: Create the space for people to say “No”.
If you want to not be a creep, you have to give the people around you the space to say ‘No’ at any time – without fear, shame, or guilt.
For example, if you see that a person is hesitant to say ‘Yes’ to a dance, ask them if they’d prefer to get water this dance instead.
Creating a space to say ‘No’ is essentially saying “I got it – I’m not offended, and I don’t need an explanation. So, let me give you an excuse that you can take without feeling guilty.”
Step 3: Understand how people use body language.
Body language sometimes tells you far more than words. The better you become at picking up body language, the easier it will be for you to figure out what people want, need, and like.
For example, body language is how advanced dancers differentiate between someone needing more clarity, or someone who doesn’t want to do something. It’s also how people assess if someone wants to dance with them, or sends signals that they don’t want to dance.
When it comes to dance creeps, some of the most common cues they miss are:
- a partner trying to pull away from close hold,
- a partner trying to avoid head-to-head contact,
- pulling away or hesitating at unwanted or too-long hugs, massages, or ‘friendly’ touches off the floor,
- awkward laughter or unenthusiastic/non-acknowledgement of unwanted comments about their looks or style,
- awkward laughter or unenthusiastic/non-acknowledgement of ‘jokes’ that are very dirty, or physically sexual in nature,
- trying to pull away from an unwanted 2nd or 3rd song,
- turning down or a hesitated acceptance of repeated ‘asks’ for dances, with guilt at refusal,
- short answers or non-acknowledgement to interactions off the floor, or online.
As a general rule, there’s a few indicators of discomfort that are widely used:
- Eye Contact: avoiding or refusing to engage
- Smile: non-present, or not reaching the eyes
- Body position: turning or leaning away
- Tension: shoulders or body is stiff; arms pushing away
- Non-engagement: a refusal to acknowledge, or short, bare-minimum engagement
- Hesitation: a pause before giving an (often unenthusiastic) answer
- Touch: a hesitant or light touch that avoids full contact
Step 4: Understand ‘Soft’ Outs
A soft out means the same thing as a ‘no’, but are frequently used when a person feels uncomfortable rejecting.
For example, excuses like ‘getting a drink of water’ are a common type of soft ‘no’. They’re not the real reason for the decline, but it’s evident that they’re still a ‘no.’
They can also be used as an attempt to stop a physical interaction. For example, someone saying ‘thank you’ as a way to end a dance, massage, or other interaction where they were receiving a ‘benefit’ can be a soft out. Yes, they’re thanking you – but it’s also a sign that they’re at their limit for that particular interaction.
Another type is using an ‘Ok’, quick hug, or other positive interaction to set the tone. For example, during a hug a person may say ‘Ok’ if it’s been too long for them. Or, if a comment they’re uncomfortable with comes up, they may say ‘Ok’ to change the topic into something else.
People may also use a soft out if they don’t want you to come with them somewhere. For example, ‘I’ll be right back’, ‘I just need to run up to my room’, and ‘I’m going to go talk to my friend’ are all signs that they probably don’t want your company for that errand, unless they specifically invite you.
The better you get at assessing soft outs, the better you will be at respecting boundaries.
Step 5: Respect the ‘No’.
Whether it’s a soft out, a direct no, or non-verbal body language, respect the ‘No’. It’s a boundary, and it shouldn’t be crossed – regardless of your opinion.
Even if you think it’s ridiculously stupid.
Even if you think it’s all in their head.
Even if it was taken the ‘wrong way’ by the other person.
If you try to justify your behavior or change their mind, it seems like you’re pushing the boundary. If it’s appropriate, say ‘sorry’ and move on. They know if you didn’t mean to make them uncomfortable.
Step 6: Put other people’s personal boundaries before your ‘wants’.
One of the biggest causes of creepiness is our desire to fulfill our own wants – even at the expense of other people’s boundaries. For example, our desire to dance sensually over their discomfort.
Most ‘creeps’ will not overstep the boundary if directly confronted. This is because most people who are creeps convince themselves that they just ‘didn’t know’ the boundary was there.
It’s the same reason that some people use the line “Well, why didn’t she just say ‘No’ if she didn’t want me to flirt with her?” Deep down, most of those ‘creeps’ knew that the advance was unwelcome. However, they can convince themselves that they ‘didn’t know’ because the person never directly said ‘no’.
If you don’t want to be a creep, you need to honestly look at if your behavior is wanted. If you have any inclination that the behavior doesn’t seem to be welcome, stop.
Step 7: If in doubt, don’t.
If you are someone who really, really struggles with reading people, the best way to keep yourself from being a creep is to be extra-sure you don’t overstep boundaries.
Not sure if they want to dance close? Don’t hold close.
Not sure if they want a hug? Let them initiate.
Not sure if they want a second dance? Wait for their decision, or just do one.
Not sure if they want to dip? Try one slowly. If no response, do no more.
No matter how bad you may be at reading people, there’s no reason to be a dance creep. It simply takes awareness, a willingness to respect others, and knowing to not do things that could be creepy if you can’t understand non-verbal cues.
In the end, ‘not knowing’ is not a suitable excuse for being a dance creep. We have an obligation to our fellow dancers to monitor our own behavior.
TLDR version is nicely shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8
From my point of view, this is very tricky topic. But please let me share some opinion from the other side (guy).
Sexual advances are absolutelly normal. Without it humanity would die out. Im not talking just about dancing, but in general. Dancing is just a place where it is easier than elsewhere.
When talking about creeps, harrasment, etc the question “what is acceptable” is wrong (at least in my opinion). The question that needs to be discussed is “When it is acceptable?”
The reason for this is that “What is acceptable” has so many variable, that there is no simple answer. One girl can be offended by butt slap and few hours later she can be doing pretty hardcore stuff and enjoy it.
You cant say “Grabbing the butt is not ok! Never do it!”. Because:
1) Every person has different limit. I danced with girls that needs distance. I danced with girl that danced closed. I dacne with girl that humped my leg like a dog. I know girls who greet my with handshare. I met girls that want a kiss on cheek. I met girls that went directly for lips. I know girls that hate sexual touches. I know girls that find little butt slap funny and flattering. Everyone has completally different line of what is ok and what is unacceptable.
2) The limit what the person likes is the same all the time. It changes with the other person. Basically the same girl can dance with one guy and when he touches her in some way, the response would be “Hey. What are you doing you ugly fat creep” (in her mind). But other guy can do exactly same thing and the response would be “omg, yes please! finally all the dreams are comming true! Dont stop.” This applies for everybody. (even I can say that there are some grils I dont find pleasant to touch at all. There are others that I would do on the dance floor if I could without hesitation)
3) The limit of what is ok can change by mood, situation, smells, etc. So one night something may be unacceptable, other night it may be fun.
But you probably get the idea what I am trying to say.
My point is that the limit is pretty clear to the girl herself. She always knows what she likes, disslikes and what is ok. But for us guys, this is big mistery. We can not see inside your head. we dont know how you feel about us. And even if we try, we will make honest mistakes.
Only way to prevent this is to let us know in advance. But honestly I never met a girl that would start a interaction with saing: “Ok. I like you. So you can dance close. You can touch my hair. But please no intimate touches.” or “Today Im in mood for some sexy play. You can touch me with your erection little bit, it will turn me on. But that is that. Please dont try anything more. Im not here to hook up.” or “Im new and not used to all the touching. Please keep a distance, but dont take it personally. It is not you, it is me.” or “Hey sexy, wanna use this dance as a foreplay and then I would like if you invite me to your place?” All these definition are clear to you. Not to us.
And unless you give us this guidance, please dont take the mistakes the wrong way and hold them agains us. And if you dont like something, please try to be clear (I mean very clear). First of all, not all the guys are good at understanding gentle hints (sorry). And no matter how many times you say “No means no!”, unfortunatelly it is not always true and “No” is one of the most confusing answers from ladies 🙁 it can meany “no never!” or “yes, but fight for it a littble bit” or “Not now, but ask again later” and many other meanings. So it is helfull if it is clear.
But anyway – my point is:
If you clearly ask a guy to not do something and he continues. Or he does some really “out of the question stuff” (like really sexually assaulting you during first dance) than I agree with this article. Just kick the guys in to the balls, report him and never dance with him again.
But if he do something you dont like, please try to understand that he probably does not mean it in a bad way. Please dont be offended. Ask yourself – is this somethineg I never want to experience in my life (getting my boobs touched by a guy,…). Would I mind if Channing Tatum (Brad Pitt…) did this? If not, than maybe the guy did not crossed you limits. Maybe he just missjudged the situation or his sex appeal for you. And it can happen easily. And maybe he did not do it on purpose with intend to offend or use you. In my opinion there are really very few real creeps that are missusing the dance event as a cheap lapdance studio. Most of them are normal guys, who try to be nice to you. Just choose the way, that you dont like and they could not know in advance.
Thank you
Jimmy:
If you’re in doubt about what is acceptable to a particular girl, don’t try it. That’s the point of the article. If you’re good at understanding body language and what a girl wants on the floor, go for it. But, if it’s ‘all a big mystery’, err on the side of caution.
“No” means “no”. Period. No exceptions. If she’s ‘playing a game’, don’t play back. It’s not a confusing answer. If a girl is playing those ‘games’, don’t play back.
You have crossed limits if she doesn’t want to do that thing *with you*. It’s not that the thing you did is ‘in limits’ because she’d want Brad Pitt to do it to her.
Also: touching people with erections on the floor? Most girls that social dance would probably consider that highly inappropriate.
Point is: If you can’t tell what a girl is responding to and if she’s opening a door to more, don’t do it. You will be a creep. It’s not harmless. It’s scary. It makes people uncomfortable. It can be assault.
If you’re really unclear but you really want to do that thing, ask for permission.
It’s not rocket science.
Laura, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I’ve been to dances where the leads have taken the liberty of holding me so close (almost forcefully), despite my attempts to keep my distance. It is SUCH an uncomfortable feeling to have a guy press himself up that close to me without my having given any kind of consent to a close embrace, especially when it is obvious that he is in a state of arousal! Highly inappropriate for a social dance, in my opinion.
Wow Jimmy,
I like your question “When is it acceptable.” You’ve given it a lot of thought, but there is really only one concise answer. Any move, touch, question, statement, ANYTHING is acceptable ONLY when there is expressed consent. Full stop. End of story.
Not sure if you can read body language? Ask. Asking for consent is sexy. I’ve talked with so many girls that I’ve danced with, and they ALL appreciate the fact that I ask them before I do anything that would be uncomfortable, whether it be a dip, close embrace in blues dancing, or anything else that would make me uncomfortable. Key word; would it make ME uncomfortable if I was dancing with a guy and he did that to me?
One thing that worries me is this “Would I mind if Channing Tatum …” business. That has nothing to do with anything. Your thoughts about what a girl might fantasize about doing with someone else has absolutely NO bearing on what is permissible for you to do. If you consider this behavior ‘not creepy’ then I think you need to start talking with some of the people that you dance with and get confirmation. Unfortunately, you don’t get to decide what is creepy, the recipient of the creepy behavior gets to.
In closing, I don’t mean for this to attack you personally, I just want to improve the dance scene in general. My advice to you, who I’m assuming is a Male Lead, is to learn to follow. Learn to follow, and dance with men as well as women. It will open up how simple things that leads do unintentionally can be very uncomfortable, and you can learn from those experiences and become a better dancer, especially a better lead.
Good luck
Jimmy,
I can answer that question of “When is it acceptable?” for you!
When you tell a woman that that what she wrote or said was trivial and unimportant enough to be “TLDR” in your book, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT an acceptable time to mansplain a side order of bullsh*t that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Hope that’s helpful.
This article has touched on very important and sensitive issue.
What i find quite interesting is with Jimmy’s assessment.
Unfortunately there are men who have refused to educate ourselves on how to behave appropriately. It is not the lady’s duty to educate the man on what not to do.
When you get on the dance floor with a lady, decency will inform us men to start the dance from a safe distance (i’m not implying 10 feet away) but a comfortable space. It is most safe to wait for the lady to dance closer rather than the man/lead getting too close. Often times some ladies are not confident dancing with ‘strangers’ nevertheless being overly close. Most people go to dance to relieve stress or just to enjoy the nice atmosphere.
The hand going beyond the ‘Belt Line’ (i don’t use waistline because people can push the boundary to the buttocks, whereas we are quite aware of where the Belt stays), going below the ‘Belt Line’ is crossing the ‘Red Line’.
There will be ladies who may literally run into your arms for a big hug and possibly a cheeky kiss, this is often due to the lady being familiar with you. Not everyone would have built that strong ‘friendship’ with you and therefore you can not assume the next lady is going to behave in that manner. We the ‘men’ have a responsibility to make the lady feel at ease and secure throughout the dance. I can almost guarantee you she is likely to keep holding your hands and wait for the next song to have a second dance if she is having fun.
I have heard quite some disturbing stories from some ladies and some of the behaviours are quite ‘criminal’ . I wouldn’t be happy if someone did that to my mother, sister or daughter and therefore don’t find it funny in any way.
One thing we need to keep in mind is that there are often times couples at the dance venues. Some men have told off their ‘partners/girlfriends’ for ‘dirty dancing’ with other men. I am aware of couples who have separated because the ‘men’ did not want ladies to dance Blues because the ladies would be too close to other men.
Ofcourse there are ladies who would initiate what could be deemed ‘sexualised’ dance. This is often times with a person they may ‘fancy’ or been longing to have a dance with.
I personally have been asked by a lady “why don’t you dance with me like you danced with that lady?”, “i want you to dance closer to me like you danced with that lady”. I just apologised and tried to dance closer with her whiles keeping my hip a little away from her. This was a out of Respect to her relationship, i do not want to make her boyfriend jealous or anything. I like to dance respectfully with all dance partners regardless of age. Dance style is likely to be different based on how long we’ve known someone or the type relationship we have with them.
The dance floor is meant to be a place we can enjoy free laugh and funny dances, definitely not a place to test how far we can go with inappropriate touching people.
I almost entirely agree with Jimmy. Some women are totally erratic like he says.
I met a girl in Budapest who one night said, “don’t hold me tight”, (meaning close embrace in tango milonguero style) and next week said “hold me tighter”. That was in Hungary.
I met in Bogotá (a place NOT recommended for tangueros anyway) an “instructor” who one night said “I do not like your embrace”, and that same night, another much more attractive girl in the same milonga said “you have the most fascinating embrace”. Hey I did not go to bed with her..!
So it is hit or miss. You never know. Tango has a distinctive characteristic, in general a “NO” either verbal or by cabeceo, is FOREVER.
And, women who do not accept close embrace, cabeceo, touch of the chests (where the lead is), and foreheads, shall NOT GO to tango. I know this page or blog is in Canada. Different culture. Tango has its rules, you do not go to play soccer with your own rules, and tango has argentine rules that made it a success. Australia, NZ, Canada and somehow US, have their own rules for football, that is why they do not play internationally or even with each other.
Jose,
I don’t think I said anywhere in the article to not use the established rules based on the culture of a dance. I dance Brazilian Zouk. It’s one of the closest styles out there.
Obviously, every person is going to have a different opinion on what they like or don’t like. It can even vary from person to person. And that’s fine; that’s totally acceptable and allowed.
But, across all dance cultures that I have ever seen all around the world (which is several, in many places), dance is supposed to be a mutually pleasant experience. In order to do that, the partner who is comfortable with less sets the boundaries.
Now, if you want to talk about ‘rules’….
Cabeco, etc. is a system of etiquette – or ‘rules’ – that helps ensure everyone involved is having a good time. This shouldn’t be conflated with dance technique.
Just like sports at various levels use different techniques, so does dance. So. someone on Day 1 who isn’t comfortable with full-body contact shouldn’t be forced to dance with it. They can still be introduced to Tango, Zouk, or any other dance in a way that is comfortable to them – and they will graduate to liking the rest of it on their own time.
For that matter, leads also need to graduate in what they’re capable of doing. There’s a lot of leads who can’t get a nice embrace on Day 1 because they’re just learning. People need the space to grow into skills. If we were to cut out every person from a scene who wasn’t instantly comfortable with all the holds and techniques, close partnered dances would quickly die.
Well said. Here, in Philadelphia, USA, they pass out a 2 page set of rules of behavior including asking a partner if they lead, follow, or switch. They have posters in the rest rooms so you can report people on the sly. Most of the rules are a hit list of woman’s complaints about men from a to z. They tell you what can be lead what is off limits. There are no beginners at a milonga or very few, everyone knows what should not be said, it is taught in classes every where. I find the Safe Spaces movement sketchy. 20 years ago tango understood they were losing business because followers ran out of classes to take so in the interest of profit they marketed leading to followers (women) with great success. Then gay tango spaces came out so they marketed to them. How else would you know if a woman was leading or switching (don’t look at her shoes) so now YOU HAVE TO ASK that also. They serve booze but toss you out if you get a buzz. Etc. Etc. Etc. Maybe this is Gen Z coming into their own? Maybe it is time for us Gen X/boomers to let go and forget we built this dance over the last 60 years? Be careful what you lead, you might make some young person feel bad they couldn’t follow so now I’ll dumb down my dance I spent 25 year on. You don’t like to dance close? Don’t dance tango.
If you don’t like the fact that women are gaining agency and a voice, maybe tango (and partner dance in general) isn’t for you.
I empathise with some of what Jimmy is saying, and I understand it might not seem fair on guys to have to ‘figure out the mystery’. But it is the same for girls, we have to read what a guy is or isn’t comfortable with, but often guys are comofrtable with more because of the way society and social norms are structured, but it would be just as bad if i started feeling up a leaders back or grinding on his leg if he wasn’t comfortable with it….my main thing I have to confront when I’m dancing with leaders for example, is that I’m married. I’m perfectly comfortable doing closed hold and sensual movements with other guys, but some guys aren’t comfortable doing that with me, even more if my husband is around. I have to respect that. I can tell them ‘i don’t mind if you do sensual movements’ but honestly, it’s not like it’s every dancer that is like this and I enjoy the dance anyway without sensual movements.
My best advice is as laura says, would be if you’re unsure then just don’t do it. I think a general rule is if a girl isn’t comfortable in closed hold, then she probably won’t be comfortable with most other sensual movements.
Sadly also, I notice in myself, that I have less boundaries with more advanced dancers. This is not because I feel attracted to them or want to flirt with them, but zouk is sensual and it’s just as much about the intention as the movement itself. For example, there is a dancer who I LOVE to dance with when I go to London or see him abroad. He is very experienced, great musicality, soft leading, very sensual …and when he takes my hand and makes my fingers run through my hair it feels AWESOME and so sensual and really adds to the dance. However, if a beginner did this and was just standing in closed hold and swaying side to side and did that move, i think i would be creeped out…..maybe it sounds unfair of me, but that’s just the way it is, I would question where the confidence and purpose of where that movement came from, as it certainly isn’t from being an experienced leader.
Also, the final comment i would like to make would be that I think the biggest attributor on my ‘creepiness scale’ (outside of the obvious touching the a** on the dancefloor or whatever) is more their persona off the dancefloor, how you invite her to dance, how you speak with her, how you act with people around you and what I guess could be quite synonomous with personality. Why do I say this? Because when I read the article title, 2 people instantly came into my mind. Both of these people have very intense stares off the dancefloor, and will stare at followers they like quite intensely and never really speak to others around, nor do they look relaxed… and because of their expression are very unapproachable. I understand that social anxiety is quite common and off the dancefloor, however that feeling of not feeling relaxed transmits to others, so try faking it until you make it and try to have genuine conversations with others about neutral things …like talking about the workshop you did, or your favourite teacher and why…. I know if it were me I would appreciate the effort and would make me feel more relaxed and would help me distinguish social anxiety or shyness from creepiness….it doesn’t even have to be with me, but I always notice behaviours of leaders off the dancefloor as well as watching them on it, and as I said before, this is a bigger attributor to the ‘subtle’ creepiness than how they actually dance. I’m sorry to say, but it is creepy if I constantly see a guy on his own on the edge of a dancefloor, i try to be sympathetic as I know not everyone is good at communicating verbally, but these people need to try and meet halfway….another situation in which followers have to try to read leaders is, ‘are you just a bit socially awkward and shy? Or are you fantasising over that girl you seem to be focused on staring at? ‘
Spotting Dance Creep 101
#1 They are usually 5’5″ and doing their best Ataca cosplay; hat, sport jacket, loafers, no socks. And they try, poorly to dance like Ataca without recognizing that La Alemana is Ataca’s wife.
#2 They immediately force a closed sensual position regardless of the music. 100bpm or 200bpm you are getting a sensual dance.
#3 Between dances they will put their body between you and the dance floor and start talking to you. This is no accident. They dont want other leads asking you to dance. To they put themselves in-between you and the floor.